After years and months in beta the .NET 2.0 is finally ready and available for free download at http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframework/downloads/updates/default.aspx
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{ 20 } Comments
I don’t know what to do ?
To be happy for the new .net
or to be upset for the new bugs.
Could not decide ???
Can I work with .NET framework 1.1 and .NET framework 2.0 in the same development machine?
I think you can. Check MSDN whitepaper "Side-by-Side Execution of the .NET Framework" (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnnetdep/html/sidexsidenet.asp)
which says "The side-by-side support built into the .NET Framework allows multiple versions of the Framework to be installed on a single system".
The article refers to 1.1, but it should also be applicable to 2.0.
Yusuf, should no software company ever release a new version of their software because it may/will contain bugs? Your principle would effectively stop all commercial development.
Pedro, yes, 1.1 and 2.0 can be installed and developed against side-by-side. 1.1 and 2.0 install like they are separate pieces of software will little/no relationship between them.
Nobody’s perfect. Bugless software is probably impossible.
On somebody’s blog I’ve read that multiple versions of .NET is a new versioning hell.
Should not be any problem if the design of the side-by-side coexistence of different versions is flawless…
And how exactly does this relate to Borland? The 2006 IDE’s don’t support .NET 2.0.
The .NET 2.0 support will be the cornerstone of the next Delphi release - codename "Highlander". Have a look at DavidI’s blog for the Delphi 2005-2008 roadmap (http://blogs.codegear.com/davidi/archive/2005/10/03/21548.aspx).
The main focus for the 2006 IDE is the inclusion of the C++ personality and making the IDE rock-stable.
It would be difficult for Borland to target something that is in beta and "is subject to change without notice". Recent, late breaking addition of nullable values to .NET 2.0 is good example of this.
I’m really excited about the Highlander and Delphi for .NET 2.0 compiler.
Just found the list of ".NET 2.0 Breaking Changes from Beta 2 to RTM". Very interesting reading http://www.theserverside.net/news/thread.tss?thread_id=37383
How would it be possible for Borland to release a product to support .NET 2.0 this year?
Pawal,
The way Borland would release a product is to track the CTP versions, and make minor updates along the way. After the RTM, then complete final tests and release the product. Our company has several products we’re releasing based on .NET 2.0. They are ready to go today.
Note that there was a lot of time, and several stepped CTP releases, between Beta 2 to RTM. So, I can’t let Borland off the hook. If they wanted to be more proactive and get product out sooner, they could have.
Note that the net effect of this is that Borland will lose more market share to Microsoft, since customers looking for tools that use .NET 2.0 can’t even consider a Borland tool. I think that is a sad situation.
I realize it is hard to do business planning against Microsoft’s liquid schedule, but on the other hand, if you wait until there are no unknowns, you give your competitors a time-to-market advantage.
My thoughts exactly. I understand that Borland can use their programming capabilities better than continuously adapting to Microsoft flings, but that we have to wait for another year for net2 to be implemented is a mortal sin. VS wil win ground by this action. Even more because we will have to pay for yet another license (8 and 2005 should have been rock-steady for the price we paid for all licenses) on top of the 2006.
Borland must be loosing clients this way, sad but true.
Spot on, Tom. If smaller (than Borland) companies can release products based on .NET 2.0 the minute (okay, day!) it is released by Microsoft, why can’t Borland? Survival means keeping up with the leader. When I saw Delphi 8 (and its successors) I knew Borland had lost pace.
It is so easy to be negative:-(
Are you guys producing compilers and IDEs for the .NET 2.0? Delphi is not only the Delphi for .NET, it is also Win32 and Linux, and being backward compatible! Supporting a new version of the .NET platform is something you want to do very carefully.
No, I’m not producing a compiler. I’m a Borland Delphi customer, finding that the horse that I’ve bet on is not winning. On my blog I complained about the price of the new Delphis, about the lack of speed and the instability of the new IDE (at least on my systems), and now there’s .NET 2.0 that’s not supported. How on earth can you justify that customers have to wait until the NEXT Delphi release after D2006. For which there is no timeframe whatsoever. Let’s pump out so called stable versions and have customers pay big (upgrade) prices, but basically we’re still selling you the old product. Oh, and it includes an outdated version of .NET. Go figure.
I was still hesitating whether I should upgrade my D6 Enterprise (which is one of the best IDE’s I have EVER used), but following what Borland is doing lately, I’ll keep my money where it is now. Buying VS and following a crashcourse C# is cheaper than buying D200x and waiting for it to support .NET 2.x.
Pawel, it’s not easy to be negative. There are tons of people having some religious believe in Borland and their holy Delphi product. I’m just a developer, trying to get the job done, and trying to spend as little money and/or time as possible doing so. At the moment, I cannot accomplish that when using Delphi 2Kx.
Pawel, please understand we’re not trying to be negative. Do you think we would take up valuable time to just complain? We’re trying to provide constructive criticism to help you promote positive change within Borland. We like Borland and have been big supporters in the past, and we would like to see continued success. But it seems like maybe the strategy needs some fine tuning, from a customer’s viewpoint.
I quite frankly have had enough of Borland and the amount of money they expect me to spend to keep up. I have been a loyal supporter of Borland since C++ 4.5 and Pascal 6. Then right through Delphi 1 to Delphi 2005. I purchased Delphi 8 only to find it was riddled with bugs. Delphi 2005 is much better and have enjoyed using it - but why could I not get patches to stablise D8??? I had to spend MORE money to get a more stable environment. Now I have to spend AGAIN to get the new version when it includes .NET 2. Why can I not just get a patch for Delphi 2005 to add .NET 2 support.
I thankfully made the wise decision of using C# about 1.5 years ago over Delphi. I have stuck to the Delphi IDE for ease of use as I know the Delphi IDE like the back of my hand. The switch to visual studio is going to be an easy one. No major code conversions at all. I am tired of Borland raping my bank account and not giving me a product that will last me more than a few months without having to do another major upgrade.
Michael,
I understand your concerns, and if you have been using Pascal and Delphi for so many years, I would definitely give Delphi 2006 a try:-) You won’t be disappointed.
That is my problem though Pawel. I purchased Delphi 8, then 2005 out of my own pocket. Delphi 2005 I only purchased 5 months ago, and now I have to purchase 2006. It is too much.
I only need the professional version, but it still costs a fair amount.
Why can Borland simply not release an update patch for previous versions so the new .NET versions are supported? Then I would be happy as I would get a year or 2 out of my Delphi before doing another major update.
Or… We get a FREE upgrade if a new version comes out within a year of the purchase?
Bottom line, is I am unhappy with the way Borland releases new versions with no consideration for their developers pockets. I have been loyal to Borland for many many years now and feel like I have been slapped in the face big time. With pre Delpi 8 versions, there was never a need to upgrade unless you wanted too. You could maintain on the current version you were on for ages and only upgrade when you had money available and wanted too. There was no major necessity. Now you HAVE to, if you want to take advantage of the new platform you code for. Not good. I literally feel like I took R4500 and threw it down the drain (when I purchased Delphi 2005).
From what I understand, .NET 2 is not supported in Delphi 2006 anyway? Would that be another upgrade I would have to do to get v2 support.
The other thing I am unhappy about, is the support for mobile development. I have a few projects that I have developed for the Windows Mobile 2003 and > platforms, and sadly cannot use Delphi as there is no support. I have to use Visual Studio 2003. This is another of the main reasons I am considering switching to VS.NET permenantly as I only have to purchase 1 product to satisfy my Winforms, ASP.NET and mobile development. For Win32, I am happy to carry on using my good old Delphi 7.
It is a tough decision. After using one IDE for donkeys years, I would prefer to stick to it. But at the end of the day, I have a budget to work with a customer requirements to tend too. Visual Studio seems to fit into those needs, even though I am not so comfortable with the IDE.
C’mon guys… Give the Borland supports a break and do something magnificent with Delphi. Give us free patches to support the new .NET version and a free add-on to fully support mobile development (inc debugging). Then my Delphi 2005 will fill all my needs and I will upgrade again when I feel the urge (and have the cash) to do so.
I beginning to think borland has lost pace badly. I had thought D2006 could support .NET 2 Framework. A number of delphi programmers and C++B are migrating to C# Microsoft, and the nice thing about c# is that you can download the free express edition from microsoft website.
I should say i really liked D6 as well, i still think it is their best IDE and compiler. I expect better innovations from Borland.
I can echo some of the frustrations expressed about upgrades etc. I’ve been using Delphi since D1 (turbo pascal prior) and have been a loyal user… bought stock in the company too. I bought 2005 to start working in .net, c# etc. and am disappointed to find that i can’t do .net2.0 I got a version of VS from attending a conference recently and guess I’ll have no choice but to start using it (cringe)…
Don’t you get it? Borland turned greedy hence the overpriced shit. What they are forgetting is that they are not the virtual monopoly Microsoft is and cannot have it the Microsoft’s way.
Corporations are anything but loyal to their customers; why should a customer be loyal to a corporation? Quality is not a profit maker, especially in the software business. Better products equal less/no reasons to fork out cash for upgrades.
Be flexible and use whatever is best for you and your business.
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