Answering Questions and Clarifying
Note: I’ve altered the post below from the original to reflect some new stuff.
A lot of folks appear to be wondering about a few things with regard to our product launches yesterday. I’m writing this post to try to answer some of those things and address a few issues:
- You can upgrade to Delphi 2007 for Win32 from any of the following products
- Delphi 1
- Delphi 2
- Delphi 3
- Delphi 4
- Delphi 5
- Delphi 6
- Delphi 7
- Delphi 8
- Delphi 2005
- Delphi 2006
- Borland Developer Studio 2006
- C#Builder 1.0
- C#Builder 2006
- C++Builder 1
- C++Builder 3
- C++Builder 4
- C++Builder 5
- C++Builder 6
- C++Builder 2006
- Any Turbo Pro
- The Turbo products are and always have been designed for new users, beginners, hobbyists, and occupational developers. Some of you felt that the Turbos were a good deal for you, and that is great. Delphi 2007 for Win32 doesn’t change that equation one bit.
- We plan to update the Turbo line of products sometime in the coming quarters. The feature set in the Turbos will likely reflect the audience for whom they are intended.
- If you are a beginner, a hobbyist, or an occupational developer, then the Turbos are probably right for you
- If you program for a living, then I’d suggest getting a Studio product.
- Delphi 2007 for Win32 was a product conceived directly from customer requests. Yes, we listened to overwhelming customers requests for Win32 development and we’ve delivered on those requests.
- Prices for Delphi 2007 for Win32. as part of the Studio Family, have gone down some. Calling it a "high priced release" isn’t correct.
- Bug fix updates will always be free. You don’t have to be on Software Assurance to get bug fix updates.
- Delphi 2007 for Win32 supports deploying to Win98 for the most part. There may be some incompatiblities.
Does that clear things up? What other questions do you have?
Okay, addressing some issues from the comments on a previous posts:
"Are you sure you listened?" — Yes, we are sure. Our overwhelming feedback from customers was that Win32 development was what they wanted. Delphi 2007 for Win32 is a Win32 development tool that many, many customers have been asking for.
"This is confusing: it is not clear that D2007 Pro is a different product to the Turbo." As noted above, the Turbos are designed for beginners, hobbyists, and occupational programmers. Professional programmers and long-time Delphi customers will likely want to be part of the Studio products.
"You guys have to decide is it a studio or not?" — Well, we have a Studio and we have tools that are part of the Studio family. Some customers want a Studio product, and we’re working on that. Some people want a Win32 development tool, and we’ve given them that. If you own BDS2007, future releases will integrate right into that IDE.
"A new version of the IDE every year is way too fast and it’s a shame to force users to buy an upgrade instead of providing serious bug fixes for free." We provided two major updates and over 15 hotfixes to BDS2006. It’s not correct to say that we don’t deliver bug-fixes for free, because we do. Customers on Software Assurance will like getting frequent functionality updates. Customers not on Software Assurance can decide for themselves whether to upgrade on any particular release.
"You really really really want us to buy SA, don’t you?" Well, yes, we do. We think that Software Assurance offers a really good value for our customers going forward.
"VCL for the Web only in Enterprise?" Not sure where this notion came from — it’s not true. VCL for the Web will be in both the Professional and Enterprise versions of Delphi 2007 for Win32.
Would it be fair to say that the difference between Delphi Pro and Turbo Delphi Pro is the ability of having multiple langauges installed into the IDE on a single PC?
February 21st, 2007 at 12:11 pm"Bug fix updates will always be free". It’s since D4 we are forced to upgrade to get bug fixes. D2005 was the peak - most of its bugs, but not all, were fixed in D2006 only. And since D2005 free fixes got the program in a "stable" state from "beta" ones only.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:20 pmFrom blogs data, you admitted you focused on stability and other IDE issues in this release. Good, but I am not going to pay three updates (D2005, D2006, D2007) to get a stable and fast IDE, sorry. And those who already got BDS why should pay for a single personality IDE? I do C++ stuff too, see no value in this release - good only for SA people. Why don’t you offer SA for Pro SKUs too?
Can I upgrade from Kylix 2? Who will sell it in Spain?
February 21st, 2007 at 1:29 pmThanx Nick
February 21st, 2007 at 2:22 pmUh yeah, i’m still confused. I just bought Turbo Delphi Pro because I only want Delphi, not .net, etc. And the price was right.
I am a one-man band creating software to sell on the web, does that mean i am an "occupational programmers" or a "professional programmer", i mean really what’s the difference between an occupation and a profession (other than the latter has an extra zero on the end
So i assume that means this upgrade is not available to me. Is there an upgrade path from Turbo Delphi to BDS with Delphi 2007? I can’t see one…
February 21st, 2007 at 2:25 pmDoes my BDS2006 SA entitle me to Delphi 2007 for free?
February 21st, 2007 at 2:28 pmMark –
Yes — BDS2006 SA include Delphi 2007.
Nick
February 21st, 2007 at 2:30 pmThe biggest problem with SA, and this applies to Microsoft too, is that it’s only a good deal if it means you get at least one new version for less than it would have cost. We chose not to buy it with our last round of upgrades (To BDS2006) because your releases have been more than a year apart. We purchased those versions early last March.
If we had purchased SA, it would have expired just a couple weeks- maybe even DAYS- before Delphi 2007’s release. We would have received NO VALUE AT ALL from SA, and in fact, would have ended up SO ANGRY about being ripped off like that, that we might have decided not to buy the new version at all. So we obviously made the right choice.
If you REALLY want people to buy SA, it should go for a year, or until the next major release, whichever comes LAST. We should be guaranteed to get the next release, not HOPE that you finish one within the year.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:25 pmSteven,
The subscription costs less than paying the upgrade price over time. If you only get it for a single year without renewing it, you’re just taking your chances.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:32 pmGot agree with comments about Microsoft SA regarding MSDN. Recently ( Since 2003 ) Its been taking over 2 Years for next version of visual studio to Appear ( 2.5 years from VS 2003 to VS 2005 only for it to be very unperformant shall we say :-)). The service pack situation has been even worse ( VS2003 SP1 3 YEARS after release ! ). Even VS 2005 SP1 took over a year when the VS 2005 was far from what I would consider Production quality in a lot of respects. Add to that the changes they made with VS editions that annoyed me and I didnt renew this year after having MSDN(SA) for 5 Years.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:59 pmWhat Im trying to say is this SA issue seems to crop up all over Software Industry its not unique to CG. Far from it.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:03 pm(This was originally posted in a thread on non-tech. After posting I though here may be a better spot)…
Here’s a model I would like you to consider:
Drop the term Software Assurance. Adopt the term subscription.
Purchase D2007 for Win32. Purchase automatically includes 12 months
updates. Essentially you are purchasing a subscription as the initial purchase.
At the end of the 12 months you renew the subscription. You are given
60-90 days to renew. Date of subscription would start at date of
expiration of prior subscription.
After the 60-90 days you are still able to renew but at a higher cost,
increased each month until full amount of an initial purchase would be needed
again. Date of subscription would start at renewal date, not at expiration
(after all, you are paying more now).
After you have this model add subscriptions that include everything you
make and subscription that only follow a specific track.
The biggest problem with SA as it is now is it is like paying twice to get
on board.
For CodeGear this model makes every customer a subscriber. For the customer it puts pressure on CodeGear to perform to get those renewals coming in.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:33 pm"Prices for Delphi 2007 for Win32. as part of the Studio Family, have gone down some. Calling it a "high priced release" isn’t correct."
It looks like a high priced release to me. It smells like a high priced release to me. Oh look, it /is/ a high priced release!
After Delphi 2005/2006 I decided to stop buying Delphi. Your latest release has done nothing to change my mind.
At this moment Chrome looks far more interesting than Delphi. It’s a shame Chrome is only on .NET 2.0 upwards. Oh yeah, you’re not there yet either are you.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:18 pm> Why don’t you offer SA for Pro SKUs too?
I think this is a great idea. We purchased Delphi 2005 with Software Assurance and received our disks the *very day* before Delphi 2006 was announced. We got Delphi 2006 when it became available, and will now receive Delphi 2007, C++Builder 2007 and the full studio during the course of this year. And it costs less than the individual upgrades.
I think SA is a fantastic deal, because:
1. It provides a stable cost for budgeting purposes
2. It gives programmers the ability to indulge their thirst for new toys without upsetting management (this is a big one!)
3. It allows us to stay updated with regard to platform support (even though .NET2 is late).
For me, SA for Pro SKUs would mean very little, but is sure going to provide value to many other developers - and "Developers Matter", right?
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 pm- Steven Summers
Actually, if you had purchased SA in last March and renewed this year, you would be receiving the new version for nearly the same as the upgrade price. And you would be eligible for Highlander later this year, which is the full studio product, with .NET2 and some pretty good Win32 stuff - Dr Bob has shown snippets of both generics and class fragments.
That will give you two product updates in one year, for a much reduced cost. And the update would have been included in your company’s budget. Suddenly SA is not such a bad deal.
- Nick Hodges
Thanks for the prompt clarification.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:39 pmHope I got it now, but better safe than sorry:
When I buy Delphi 2007 for Win32 with SA now, I will receive (whatever the names will be) "C++ 2007 for Win32" and "BDS 2007" when available later this year for free?
If I buy Professional SA, I guess I won’t get an Architect Edition for that later, do I?
BTW, couldn’t find anything about Delphi 2007 in the German online shop. Is the pre-order only available by clicking the "PRE-ORDER NOW" button?
February 21st, 2007 at 11:57 pmI am confused not only by the name "Delphi 2007 for Win32", but also by the references to AJAX. Is there going to be a later product called "Delphi 2007 for .NET" coming along later in the year that continues the ASP.NET product line (presumably for .NET 2.0)? If you buy the Win32 product now will you only get NET 2.0 or BDS 2007 or whatever it will be called IF you also have SA?
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:50 amSA again…
It’s still a crapshoot, or at least, it has been. The time delay between Delphi 7 and Delphi 8, which was TOTALLY USELESS, both because the quality was so poor that it was an exercise in frustration, and because it was dot-net only, followed by the wait time until 2005, which at least restored Win32 support, but was also too shoddy to actually use, followed by more than a year before BDS 2006 was released, which has finally been good enough to be usable (but nowhere near the stability of Delphi 7, let alone version 5 which we were still using up to that point), would have cost a whole lot more in SA payments than we spent simply upgrading to BDS2006 (from D5), once you finally had a worthwhile new release.
Now you’re telling me that if I’d spent $750 per copy last year, for nothing but the right to spend another $750 per copy THIS year, the $1500 would have purchased not just the upgrade to Delphi 2007, but also Highlander later in the year. But for those of us with no information other than the published Roadmap, there WAS NO SUCH THING as Delphi 2007 on the Radar- only highlander, which had slipped from "a year from BDS 2006" to "Middle of 2007". If the PUBLISHED plans had been followed, I’d have spent $15,000 to upgrade us JUST to Highlander, with a high probability that I’d have to spend another $750 per copy the following March to get whatever comes after that (I can’t remember the codename, and a search for the roadmap article on DN provides a whole list of non-working links today).
Given that track record, can you blame us for not betting on Highlander, and its follow-on, being both close enough together and good enough that the three SA payments (which would cost almost as much as two upgrades) would have been worth spending?
Don’t get me wrong- I’m a fan- both of Delphi and Borland. It’s been a bit like rooting for the Cubs, but I really do hope you pull it together and give me ammo in the corporate battle between sticking with Delphi and migrating to VS C#. But you’re going to have to keep releasing new versions that aren’t stinking piles of dung (and face it, two of the last three WERE), and doing so rapidly, before most of us are going to trust you enough to pre-pay 60% of the upgrade cost every year. Borland (and CodeGear) don’t have NEARLY enough credibility yet for us to be willing to pay in advance. I don’t even think I’m going to be able to convince management to shell out the $13K that our upgrades to Delphi 2007 would cost, even if it’s GREAT.
We’re just going to have to wait and see- if CodeGear survives, if you can start putting out high quality products again, and if the rest of the industry starts to believe too, so that there’s a reasonable chance that sticking with Delphi won’t turn out to have been a stupid decision. I’m rooting for you, but I’m not putting a lot of money on a bet.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 amOne more thing. While you guys all like to throw around the term "Subscription", it doesn’t apply. The subscriptions I’m currently paying for - my cable modem connection, satellite TV, my cell phone, a couple magazines, the newspaper, etc, all deliver either a constant supply of something, or daily, weekly or monthly deliveries of something with known value.
Software assurance, OTOH, is nothing like that. There’s no constant supply of anything, no scheduled deliveries, and no "assurance" that one will actually recieve ANYTHING for the payment. If it was $2000 for three years, with a guarantee of at least two releases in that time interval, it might be something like a subscription- but as it is, it’s more like the "extended warranties" they try to sell you on everything you get at BestBuy, that Consumers’ Reports and everybody else tells you are dramatically overpriced and almost never a good deal.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:32 amGood god this is confusing. I really thought the introduction of Turbo products was going to streamline the whole product line, but it actually seems to be making it more a mess. How can you say that Turbo products are for beginners and hobbyists when one of the products is called Turbo Delphi "Professional". At no point did I think it was aimed at newbies over the past six months. You guys really need to figure out what’s going on over there; and fast.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:35 amPeter –
Forgive me, but I’m having a hard time understanding how $399 is greater than $460, and $899 is greater than $1099.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:46 amYes — you can only pre-order Delphi 2007 for now. It will ship in a few weeks.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 amSteve –
Given the view you’ve taken of SA, yes, it’s probably not the best deal for you. You appear to view SA as a way to "get something for free in the next year". So, yes, if you take that attitude, then there maybe years that it doesn’t pan out.
However, if one takes a longer view, and renews SA every year, one will get, over the long haul, more releases for less money.
I understand that the timing for SA didn’t work out for you with the way you are looking at things. I understand that you are hesitant as a result to renew your SA.
All I can ask is that you look at what renewing will cost you against what will be delivered in the coming year.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:15 amHi Nick.
I am really looking forward to the new stuff you guys are coming up with.
There is just one thing you need to clarify to me :
I have BDS2006, and i just renewed my SA (the first one didn’t give me anything - but that’s bad luck….)
I guess the BDS2006 SA will give me
Delphi 2007 for Win32 and
Delphi 2007 for PHP and
BDS2007 (this is the Highlander arriving at the end of this year??)
Am i correct ?
Will BDS 2007 contain the PHP personality ?
Thanks
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 pmJan
Jan –
Delphi for PHP is not part of the Studio SA, no.
Otherwise, yes, you are correct — you get all Studio level Products with your SA.
Pretty good deal!
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:06 pmThanks Nick.
Anyways, i just remember that a long time ago you guys upgraded the word "Delphi" to be a language - and not just a development tool.
(ref: http://info.borland.com/techpubs/delphi/Delphi2005/Reference.pdf on page 7 Language Overview : "Delphi is a high-level, compiled, strongly typed language….")
How does that fit "Delphi for PHP" ? If you follow that, then it should also be called "Delphi for C++" :o)
Best regards
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:29 pmjan
-Forgive me, but I’m having a hard time understanding how $399 is greater than $460, and $899 is greater than $1099. -
Perhaps because for $460 or $1099 we received the full BDS package, including C++, .NET, C#, et. al. To get the same thing now, it is $399 PLUS $360 for "Support & Maintenance" the price of Software Assurance or $899 PLUS $360 for "Support & Maintenance".
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:53 pmI’m simply doing the math. SA is $750. Upgrades are around $1250 (just to make the math easy). If I purchase an upgrade for $1250, and add SA, I’ve spent $2000. If the next release doesn’t happen within the year, then I spend another $750, which gives me two releases for $2750 instead of two releases for $2500. If I spend ANOTHER $750 the following year, then I’ve spent $2750. IF the next upgrade happens within 12 months of the prior one, then I’ve gotten 3 releases for $920 each - but if that one takes longer than a year, I renew again, and I’ve spent $3500, $1166 each, instead of $3750. So I’ve saved roughly 8%, but paid ahead. But let’s suppose one of those releases is dot net only, or a Mac version, or whatever. Now I’ve spent $3500 for TWO versions, and gotten one "free" that I have no use for (and this isn’t hypothetical - Delphi 8 was useless to us). I could spend another $750 (we’re up to $4200), hoping that the next release is useful, but if it comes within another year, I’ll have spent $1400 per copy instead of $1250, and lost the ability to chose whether or not the release is worth the money.
In the current situation, for us, MAYBE it would have been worth it- Delphi 2007 might be GREAT- we’ll see. And if it doesn’t slip, Highlander might come out before the next (hypothetical) SA anniversary (early March 2008), and we’d get THREE releases for $2750. But if we only use the Win32 parts, the Highlander version won’t deliver much beyond what’s in Delphi 2007. And looking at it the other way, if what I need is Delphi dot Net, then the surprise Delphi 2007 wouldn’t be useful to me, and I’d still be waiting for Highlander- which would get me back to two (useful) releases for several hundred dollars more than just waiting and upgrading.
The bottom line on this is that your statement that "if one takes a longer view, and renews SA every year, one will get, over the long haul, more releases for less money. " is only true in a subset of situations- how small a subset I don’t know, because it depends on what features are being found useful to what fractions of your customer base. And when it IS true, by my calculations, "less money" is only a little bit less money- certainly not enough savings to justify the loss of the ability to CHOOSE whether or not you want to spend the money on a new version. (And of the last three versions, only 33% of them was good enough to be worth spending money on, so statistically, it’s a terrible bet.) What I do know is that for US, our decisions NOT to purchase SA in the past have saved us LOTS of money. Unless SA is either significantly cheaper (half the cost of an upgrade, at most), or guaranteed to last as long as the interval between pairs of major releases, I can’t see how it could be considered a reasonable deal, or even a reasonable RISK, in ANYONE’s situation.
Can you show me scenarios that prove me wrong?
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:01 pmSteven –
The decision to buy or not buy SA is one you have to make for yourself. If you feel that it’s not a good deal for you, then I suggest that you don’t get it.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:09 pmNick: I now have BDS Architect with SA, which allows me to deploy Intraweb ISAPI DLL’s. Will Delphi 2007 for Win32 allow me to do the same? I must have this capability.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmJohn E. Wilfong wrote above "Drop the term Software Assurance. Adopt the term subscription…"
John, I absolutly agree with the model you propose!
I raised a similar thread yesterday on both Nick and DavidI blogs; however, your description and careful wording is much clearer and complete. Mine was partly fueled by anger… for that I apologise.
I can’t understand how CG wouldn’t promote this model. I understand that they don’t get as big an initial cash grab… however, that’s what people are most annoyed about.
It would be in their best interest (and ours) to let us into a subscription (aka SA) without a killer startup cost and then keep us there for many years to come. This will help CG cashflow and ours.
John, I would really like to know how others feel about your proposed model… especially Nick and DavidI.
Rick.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 pmNick,
In your clarifying statements you address VCL for the Web:
"VCL for the Web only in Enterprise?" Not sure where this notion came from — it’s not true. VCL for the Web will be in both the Professional and Enterprise versions of Delphi 2007 for Win32.
Yes, it’s in both but the D2007 for Win32 product pages describes:
D2007 Pro - "AJAX techniques for building interactive web pages". This sounds like Intraweb page mode in D2006 Pro.
D2007 Ent - "interactive web applications with AJAX support". This sounds like Intraweb application mode in D2006 Ent/Arch.
In fact, it sounds exactly like Intraweb… a question CG doesn’t seem to want to answer?????
So if I want to do anything useful on the web (i.e. web application) I’m going to need Ent. Yes/no?
Here’s a direct question… will D2007 for Win32 ship with IntraWeb 8 or Intraweb 9?
I’m sorry for the negative attitude… I’m really a die-hard Delphi user and fan. This sudden knee jerk in product direction and lack of roadmap has me really concerned about the status of CG and my future as a developer who relies on Delphi.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 pmRick –
We’ve said all along — it’s Intraweb 9.
I don’t think you have anythign to be concerned about — we have a roadmap. We just have to follow a long list of government regulations regarding what software companies can say in their roadmaps.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:43 pmRick –
I’m not sure what the "killer startup cost is" — you can get SA with any upgrade to Studio products.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:44 pmNick, I am sorry to bother you again, but there is still (a least :o) one thing i am confused about.
Delphi 2006 = BDS 2006 right ?
The Delphi 2006 SA covers new Delphi releases! (ie. Major new features, architecture changes, product components)
The reason to buy a software assurance is to be assured to get new features for a stable annual fee. Now you have made a new PHP Language feature in Delphi, just as you made C#, C++, ASP.NET etc. features in Delphi 2006.
When you release Delphi for PHP i would exspect to get it because i have Delphi Software Assurance!
So why is it that the new Delphi for PHP is not a part of the assurance ?
How am i assured if i don’t get new releases ?
Best regards
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:29 pmJan
Delphi 2006 = BDS2006 That is true, yes.
DelphiPHP isn’t included in BDS SA, no. Delphi PHP isn’t a Studio product.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:39 pmJan –
Delphi 2006 = BDS2006 That is true, yes.
DelphiPHP isn’t included in BDS SA, no. Delphi PHP isn’t a Studio product.
Nick
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:40 pmIt appears that Delphi 2007 does not include .NET support. Is there going there going to be a BDS 2007 as well?
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 amPS-I greatly preferred the old (Delphi 7) style IDE to the Microsoft imitation in your recent IDEs. Sure wish we could have the choice, as I found the old style more productive.
Terrance Robinson –
"It appears that Delphi 2007 does not include .NET support. Is there going there going to be a BDS 2007 as well? "
Yes, we plan on updating the Studio in mid-year.
"PS-I greatly preferred the old (Delphi 7) style IDE to the Microsoft imitation in your recent IDEs. Sure wish we could have the choice, as I found the old style more productive."
Have you explored some of the new productivity features of the new IDE like Live Templates and Refactoring?
Nick
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 amDear Nick:
There seem to remain only two languages one can write applications compiled to machine code in and still get the native Vista interface, and I am very glad Delphi is one of them. However, considering users less eager to upgrade, in which areas are there limitations regarding the Windows 98 SE target? What does work and what does not? Is there any hope of work arounds, possibly with third-party components?
Yours sincerely,
Konrad Rychlewski
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmKonrad –
We don’t "officially" certify against Win98, but applications created with Delphi should run fine there.
There probably are a few incompatibilities, but I’m afraid I can’t list them specifically. I suspect that they will be minimized if you make sure the Win98 box has IE6 and all accompanying libraries.
Nick
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmNick, My company would buy several upgrade and SA. I think this sa policy is reasonable.
But, the price specified by press release and you is would NEVER apply to my and our korean developers, so we cannot avoid to be dissapplinted again.
We korean purchase your products at twice higher price than US developers and Japanese developers.
In other words, the price of a Ent copy in korea is double of monthly salary of a developer.
How do you feel about this?
You borland/codegear always kept saying, ‘we do not involve in local market’.
So korean distributor never cut the price, against thounsands of protests.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, Do some effort to korean market.
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 pmI have really get tired to begging to korean distributors and korean branch for 6 years.
They always said that they doing some progress for cutting price, and I believed for 6 years, but nothing changed, and we still should choose between purchacing in twice price or using illegal copy.
Nick, I have a client who is worrying about the legal issue for the application used by the company. They have the application developed under Delphi5 by a third party developer and also the application uses BDE to connect to their Oracle Database. Is it legal to use the application? Or, do they have to purchase Delphi5 (which is not available anymore) to use the application and/or the BDE?
February 27th, 2007 at 9:09 pmRobby —
They don’t have to own Delphi to /use/ the application, no. They do have to own Delphi if they want to further /develop/ the application.
Nick
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